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Racism (from a moral standpoint)
#11
mangaD Wrote:How do you know that those problems are race-based and not culture-based? If you convert most of Africa to Islam and most terrorist attacks come from black people, are you going to blame terrorism on race?

no because we don't blame children for committing crime we blame smarter people who influence them because if you tried to convert other demographics it would be much more difficult than someone who has an iq that of room temperature.

mangaD Wrote:This is speculation, unless you provide a credible source with proof that supports your theory.





You need to have agency to direct your potential. Animals don't have agency. Groups of people with low iq are unlikely to have greater control over their destiny compared to the other races.


mangaD Wrote:No. If my race is a bunch of criminals who endanger my life and my descendants, then I'd rather live with other races.

This is if you have agency and recognize the problems with your community. Those that do try to help their community or run away. And its funny too because the people running away from their problems to white countries are too dumb to realize they are bringing their problems too.

mangaD Wrote:It depends on what we are talking about. If I am an IT company hiring an employee, and it is scientifically proven that some races are more intelligent than others, race would still be a very small factor to consider. First would come education, experience, motivation, etc.

This is what i mentioned when talking about meritocracy when whites look for eligible candidates they are low on the ethnocentric value and hire based on competency however the same can not be said about other races such as jews who make sure asains and whites aren't participating proportionately based on their population number. smaller tech firms go by merit this however does not extend to big multinational corperations where jews make up most of the ceo's, executives and other institutions when they are only 2% of the population.

mangaD Wrote:Still, I must say that I'm not a fan of anarcho-capitalism where people can be neglected just because they do not meet high standards, and thus less capable people are condemned to slavery and poverty.

I disagree with ancaps they are too much of idealogs and don't consider regulation and balancing certain things because to them it really merit and doesn't take in for example the pareto distribution and natural law.

mangaD Wrote:This is purely blind statistics, not a study on the cause factors.

1) American society is stratifying along class lines as high and low IQ populations interbreed.

2) IQ is largely immutable, social programs have limited returns.

3) The welfare state is having a dysgenic effect on the population of America.

4) Racial differences in IQ better explain the discrepancy in performance between groups than other factors.

5) Because of the above America should reduce the welfare state to stop needless social engineering and rework it's educational system to better reflect reality (i.e. demand less from less able students, and demand more from more able students).

Explain to me how any of the above doesn't accurately reflect the conclusions of the book. This isn't blind statistics and unfortunately those who are blind and think there is no value in this information are the kind of people in my experience who lack intuition to help guide them. no offense.

mangaD Wrote:This says nothing about educational opportunities. What are you trying to say here? That because blacks generally cannot compete with the other races that we should assume from the beginning that any black child will not be able to compete and therefore it is not worth trying?

they can compete among themselves not with other races. the educational opportunity is segregation not the current system we have today. I would say its not worth going to college to get your degree because most college graduates have a degree it means nothing to an employer and they work at a fast food or retail business like so many of my coworkers who are much smarter than me. If I recognize my son isn't as smart i'm not going to push them to go to college and present other opportunities to make some money to fit their abilities such as being an apprentice for plumbing or truck driving.

mangaD Wrote:Was the definition of racism that I quoted here incorrect?

well two things. that wasn't the point as i was trying to say wikipedia is not a reliable source as it is being influenced by zionist editors. 2) the first video i ever linked up points out that racism is a tool designed to instill fear and attack ones natural character by saying your world view is unacceptable so we are going to make you a -phobe. That is the real meaning behind the word. supremacy in and of itself isn't applied to african americans because "we" see them as oppressed so really the label is currently used against whites more or less compared to the other races.



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#12
I don't think it's wise, because most of the generalities caused by racism practically give nobody an edge over the other.

Black skin corresponds to more resistance against bad sunlight, but does that matter so much really? Perhaps a person being 10 cm taller than another would enjoy more benefits in their day to day life, and such a difference in height would still not be something people would discriminate about in the way "racism" is taken to be nowadays - particularly where it's not relevant.

About stereotypes, when dealing with individuals, it's much easier (and faster) to learn about someone by talking to them directly than to study the stereotypes around. So to me, a person who's very "educated" about stereotypes is someone who's just been wasting their time. Even when dealing with large groups, statistics in politics and social sciences in general are all over the place. They're dealing with very complex systems that have too many variables.
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#13
A-Man Wrote:a person who's very "educated" about stereotypes is someone who's just been wasting their time. Even when dealing with large groups, statistics in politics and social sciences in general are all over the place. They're dealing with very complex systems that have too many variables.

you don't need to be educated on this as if this is something to look up. You can come to the same conclusion upon experience. Sure things can look complicated when you get into the details but stepping back from your work and seeing the bigger picture of this whole system really simplifies stuff to a digestible manner. The memetic propoganda is not a bad thing when it works to aid you in your own survival/attaining your goals to uphold some grand ideal.

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#14
(10-08-2018, 07:13 PM)A-Man Wrote:  Black skin corresponds to more resistance against bad sunlight, but does that matter so much really?

Yes, it matters. There are people whose skin color is so light that they get easily burned from sun exposure and can't even get tanned. Skin color also affects the synthesis of vitamin D, people with darker skin require more sun exposure or else they will lack vitamin D. This changes the types of work and environment people are qualified for, dark skin is good for working outdoors in a hot environment, light skin is good for working indoors or in a cold environment.

How does this come into play in society? Well, if you have mass migration from Asia and Africa into white countries, whilst white countries have low birth rates, sooner or later whites will become a minority (they already are actually) and this globalization and miscegenation in the long run (100-200 years) will eventually get rid of our biological diversity developed throughout millions of years, meaning that the adaptation qualities that we developed to all environments on Earth will be lost.

More importantly, the IQ question. Suppose that blacks have a lower IQ compared to other races, and that they are the majority on the planet (they aren't), miscegenation with other races would decrease the average IQ of humankind.



(10-08-2018, 04:20 PM)LutiChris Wrote:  1) American society is stratifying along class lines as high and low IQ populations interbreed.

2) IQ is largely immutable, social programs have limited returns.

3) The welfare state is having a dysgenic effect on the population of America.

4) Racial differences in IQ better explain the discrepancy in performance between groups than other factors.

5) Because of the above America should reduce the welfare state to stop needless social engineering and rework it's educational system to better reflect reality (i.e. demand less from less able students, and demand more from more able students).

Explain to me how any of the above doesn't accurately reflect the conclusions of the book. This isn't blind statistics and unfortunately those who are blind and think there is no value in this information are the kind of people in my experience who lack intuition to help guide them. no offense.

I work with logic, not intuition. You can have all the intuition in the world and still reach the wrong conclusions because you do not see the big picture or are missing a piece in the puzzle. I am not saying that you are wrong, simply that you are jumping to conclusions based on incomplete facts.

1. What do you mean with stratifying along class lines and how is this related to miscegenation?

2. Where do you get the idea that IQ is immutable?

3. What is the correlation between welfare and dysgenics? How would you deal with people who depend on welfare?

4. Why is that?

As for the conclusions in the book - I haven't read the book. I meant the statistics on IQ, that saying blacks have lower IQ doesn't necessarily mean that it is a genetic problem.

(10-08-2018, 04:20 PM)LutiChris Wrote:  they can compete among themselves not with other races.

What if there is a very intelligent black person? Why can't this person compete with other races?

(10-08-2018, 04:20 PM)LutiChris Wrote:  the first video i ever linked up points out that racism is a tool designed to instill fear and attack ones natural character by saying your world view is unacceptable

No, it isn't. Racism is an old word and was acceptable until Germany lost WW2.
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#15
Quote: You can come to the same conclusion upon experience. Sure things can look complicated when you get into the details but stepping back from your work and seeing the bigger picture of this whole system really simplifies stuff to a digestible manner.
It's not really stepping back. It's fixing a huge number of variables and letting only a small number vary. That simply gets you the wrong picture.


Quote:Yes, it matters. There are people whose skin color is so light that they get easily burned from sun exposure and can't even get tanned. Skin color also affects the synthesis of vitamin D, people with darker skin require more sun exposure or else they will lack vitamin D. This changes the types of work and environment people are qualified for, dark skin is good for working outdoors in a hot environment, light skin is good for working indoors or in a cold environment.
For a similar reason, I would likely prefer the 10 cm taller person for my basketball team (although some might even argue there are shorter players who can play better). Is that racism? I don't know. I hope it's not.

Still for your example, I still doubt it matters that much in practice. These conditions are just too specific, and the lack of the benefits of black skin can be easily compensated with equipment.
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#16
(10-08-2018, 08:53 PM)A-Man Wrote:  Is that racism? I don't know. I hope it's not.

Still for your example, I still doubt it matters that much in practice. These conditions are just too specific, and the lack of the benefits of black skin can be easily compensated with equipment.

Why do you hope it is not racism? It is not racism because height is not a racial factor.

As for being specific, how is the lack of D vitamin not a problem? How does being sensitive to sun and living in a hot country does not matter?
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#17
(10-08-2018, 08:57 PM)MangaD Wrote:  
(10-08-2018, 08:53 PM)A-Man Wrote:  Is that racism? I don't know. I hope it's not.

Still for your example, I still doubt it matters that much in practice. These conditions are just too specific, and the lack of the benefits of black skin can be easily compensated with equipment.

Why do you hope it is not racism? It is not racism because height is not a racial factor.
Haha, you see, it's really meaningless. I'm born with both a color and a (maximum) height. Maybe the question should be, why is considering color racism but height is not?


Quote:As for being specific, how is the lack of D vitamin not a problem? How does being sensitive to sun and living in a hot country does not matter?
Living in a hot country for a white person is a difficulty, but it's still just that. Is that really enough to start discriminating, and to what degree? Is there a threshold for when making a selection based on these traits considered "racism"? The problem in this sense is really vague, and it leaves a lot for commonsense.
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#18
mangaD Wrote:What is there is a very intelligent black person? Why can't this person compete with other races?

again i'm speaking in generality not absolutes. You really think its appropriate for a bunch of mules to compete with a horse. Yeah perhaps there's that one mule that got lucky with its circumstances but like i said you can't just make the exception the rule its got to be about preserving the species. If they plan to compete they better make sure they aren't going to race mix and bring their problems over. People who allow others not of their race to live among them will perish, because the inevitable result of a racial integration is racial inter-breeding which destroys the characteristics and existence of a race. Forced integration is deliberate and malicious genocide, particularly for a People like the White race, who are now a small minority in the world.

In the final analysis, a race or species is not judged superior or inferior by its accomplishments, but by its will and ability to survive.

mangaD Wrote:What do you mean with stratifying along class lines and how is this related to miscegenation?

our culture is turning more materialistic and dividing each other by economic status by ignoring race and focusing on who is wealthy because women are not loyal to their in group partners while they do have a preference for someone who looks like them if they had to choose between someone who is rich and poor obviously they'll pick the rich guy despite their physical differences if they can provide and swoon her then she's good. Younger people are being brainwashed to accept diversity and going against their own race by making them feel guilty about what their ancestors supposedly did. This can be prevented if men take back their women. This only happened because strong men created good times for weak men to allow their women to go wild. Its pretty clear now that we need white sharia. the stats are there with their porn searches their greatest fantasy is to be dominated by a man they trust. so what better man to trust than their loyal provider husband that's assigned to them.



mangaD Wrote:Where do you get the idea that IQ is immutable?

this

mangaD Wrote:What is the correlation between welfare and dysgenics? How would you deal with people who depend on welfare?


Well it depends as i don't see it as practical for us to remove nonwhites from the country if they wish to receive benefits it means there is something potentially wrong with them either laziness or terrible disfigurment that prevents them from working then they shouldn't pass on their genes because they may be irresponsible for their children who might not get proper care and resort to crime. Vasectomies and Tubal Ligation is something that could very well work and give nonwhites the incentive not to stay on welfare and become productive members of society if they wish to pass on their legacy they could still take care of kids but it wouldn't be biological rather it would be helping the white race to flourish in the nation. There's also the possibility of instituting a new regime after civil war occurs which according to my dad could happen around 2025-2027 which seems to occur every 84 years we go into an internal and external war thanks to saturn.

Now sometimes you have people that abuse our system and try to take advantage of the benefits even though they are well over the income bracket and still derive welfare checks cough* cough* jews we need to focus on giving the welfare benefits to white working class families instead of the super poor lazy people who tend to be blacks and those who are exploiting us namely jews.

Luti Wrote:welfare state to stop needless social engineering and rework it's educational system to better reflect reality (i.e. demand less from less able students, and demand more from more able students)
mangaD Wrote:Why is that?

it speaks for itself especially with what i described in the above paragraph

mangaD Wrote:that saying blacks have lower IQ doesn't necessarily mean that it is a genetic problem.

it actually is holy smokes mangaD read the book! along with culture of critique i'm sure you can find some free pdfs online

mangaD Wrote:I am not saying that you are wrong, simply that you are jumping to conclusions based on incomplete facts.

Knowledge consists of two sides: the object, and the subject of knowledge. The system of accepted education teaches us knowledge of the object. Experience of the transcendent allows us to experience knowledge of the subject. The missing element in socialized education today is how to experience the subject of knowledge. Read some of my father's works on how to do Transcendental Meditation

MangaD Wrote:Racism is an old word and was acceptable until Germany lost WW2.

yeah ur describing previous definitions. they are no longer relevant in todays age. Its all about weaponization of these words that should be recognized. Its like saying oh the original term for the word gay was this. and now in this culture its used interchangably between affectionate and lame when it was once known as homosexual and before that happy.
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#19
(10-08-2018, 09:29 PM)A-Man Wrote:  Haha, you see, it's really meaningless. I'm born with both a color and a (maximum) height. Maybe the question should be, why is considering color racism but height is not?

Race is much more than color. There are many more differences between races than color. The scientific community is not clear where it draws the line between ethnicities.

The idea of racism is that you consider some races to be superior than others, usually in terms of IQ because other factors are usually trade-offs - such as height.

(10-08-2018, 09:29 PM)A-Man Wrote:  Living in a hot country for a white person is a difficulty, but it's still just that. Is that really enough to start discriminating, and to what degree? Is there a threshold for when making a selection based on these traits considered "racism"? The problem in this sense is really vague, and it leaves a lot for commonsense.

And that my friend, is the million dollar question. Why would it be desirable for a white person to live in a hot country? Note that I am speaking of big groups and not individuals. Suppose that millions of white people migrated to Africa and the black population started to shrink due to low birth rates, plus interbreeding happening between whites and blacks, would that be a good thing, would that make sense? To my view, this would in the long run make the population of Africa less resistant to the sun light and undo what evolution did.

I believe that discrimination is necessary when dealing with mass migration that drastically changes demographics and erases ethnicities from this world. Some people say "Oh, I couldn't care less about the demographics of Europe, it could all turn Asian or African, all I care about is the individual, group identity means nothing to me". I disagree with this for several reasons, but the one I am exposing here is the biological one. But if you believe that millions of years of evolution mean little, and/or diversity is undesirable, then I suppose there's no need to further discuss this.



@LutiChris

The problem is that you are assuming things based on researches that do not represent the absolute truth. You assume that blacks have lower IQ due to their race. I watched the Peterson video, and he says at the beginning that it is possible to dumb down a person with potential by not educating them. How do you know that this is not the case for black people?

I am also against mass migration and interbreeding, so we are on the same page there.

As for women picking wealthier men - these men are generally white, what's your point?

(10-08-2018, 10:56 PM)LutiChris Wrote:  Vasectomies and Tubal Ligation is something that could very well work

You'd actually go as far as mutilating people and taking away their ability to reproduce just to get them out of welfare? How about forcing them to work by giving them some job which they cannot refuse or else welfare is taken away from them? And why would you apply this only to non-whites?

You also seem to ignore the fact that very often there are not jobs for people who lack education, because we live in a world where machines do most of the physical jobs and all jobs left require education, so there are people who live in welfare because they don't have a choice.

Moreover, you also assume that if the parents are dumb the child is going to be dumb due to genetic factors, there is no scientific evidence for this and many times this is proven wrong. I have a white friend whose parents only have 4-5 years of school because they are old and in their time education wasn't that great and people studied only 4 years, so they did not focus on intelligence at all and his parents are not that smart as you can imagine. Despite this, my friend has a master's degree in CS.

(10-08-2018, 10:56 PM)LutiChris Wrote:  they could still take care of kids but it wouldn't be biological rather it would be helping the white race to flourish in the nation

Why should the white race get special treatment in America? Even if you bring history claiming that white people got there first, the truth is that American Indians got there first. If you say that white people conquered it, then you justify any other race to conquer white people, and thus entice everyone to war and what Israel is doing in Palestine is totally legit. If you say that white people are smarter on average, this still does not account for the individual, the causal factors are still undetermined, and it disregards other physical advantages that non-whites have over withes.

(10-08-2018, 10:56 PM)LutiChris Wrote:  it actually is holy smokes mangaD read the book!

I don't have time to read the book and that defeats the purpose of dialog.

(10-08-2018, 10:56 PM)LutiChris Wrote:  Knowledge consists of two sides: the object, and the subject of knowledge. The system of accepted education teaches us knowledge of the object. Experience of the transcendent allows us to experience knowledge of the subject. The missing element in socialized education today is how to experience the subject of knowledge.

I have no use for baseless theories.

(10-08-2018, 10:56 PM)LutiChris Wrote:  yeah ur describing previous definitions. they are no longer relevant in todays age. Its all about weaponization of these words that should be recognized.

The definition has not changed. Only the acceptability has changed.
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#20
mangaD Wrote:The scientific community is not clear where it draws the line between ethnicities.

Very true, anyone who is not familiar check out this video jean francois gariepy made





mangaD Wrote:The problem is that you are assuming things based on researches that do not represent the absolute truth.

I dont see this as a nessesary problem one does not need to know every little factor before making a decision one can bring up an exp or useful fact to prioritize what to do in a given situation out of convenience and pragmatism. You will never know the absolute truth and that example i gave to you about going to a white neighborhood vs black neighborhood is an example when pressed for time and limited information. When you are presented with more information ofc you will narrow your best survival strategy and pick your poison like going to africa instead of Russian genocide in the ussr like i said im not going for absolute answers here the focus is surviving in the long term which doesnt mean ill be rigid and say oh no daughter u must go to white country even if they are in war even tho we are presented with the option of a black country that is at peace right now - seems ludicrous.

mangaD Wrote:You assume that blacks have lower IQ due to their race. I watched the Peterson video, and he says at the beginning that it is possible to dumb down a person with potential by not educating them. How do you know that this is not the case for black people?

Because we've been propping them up like no other race for well over a century now in almost everything including job opportunities because of diversity agenda and the general isnt interested sure it helps out the few gems but on the whole they havent budged unless they race mix



mangaD Wrote:As for women picking wealthier men - these men are generally white, what's your point?

See one would think that but with the acceptability changing to date a straight white man is considered racist and also that positions are opened for other minority groups to go into multiple fields to increase diversity will increase their positions in the dominance hierarchy and be more desirable. We can also account for their influence in entertainment and sports for blacks. Theres always the wealthy asain or jew but more and more it seems that 40% of whites are picking hispanics as my dad has with my mom.

mangaD Wrote:You'd actually go as far as mutilating people and taking away their ability to reproduce just to get them out of welfare?

Interesting choice of words. I'm sure a higher standard can be applied for those who work hard and benefit the country and want to provide for their kids but just giving them welfare and allowing them to have kids when the majority of single black mothers can not or in some cases WILL not adequately take care of the child is precisely the reason for them not to be breeding until they have their lives in order. And this isn't a simple lack of education this goes way deeper to them acting like children because they focus on the short term benefits like sex and impulsively spending their money instead of investing it on more important things that would help them and others long term. Because of this undesirable aesthetic i don't think they should be given these handouts. Men have no rights to life, liberty or happiness. These circumstances may be purchased by oneself, by ones family, by ones tribe or by ones ancestors, but they are nonetheless purchases and are not rights. Furthermore, the value of these purchases can only be maintained through vigilance and obedience to Natural Law.

also neat little fact: Israel does forced sterilization on black jews and there is no criticism of them preserving their ethnostate. clicke

mangaD Wrote:How about forcing them to work by giving them some job which they cannot refuse or else welfare is taken away from them?

I do not like the idea of the gov forcing them to work if they don't want to work they shouldn't be given the benefits that they currently have. Would it be better for a man to lose his freedom and keep his sperm or be given the choice to opt out of societal/parental responsibility by taking his seed? I would say giving them more responsibility increases the chances of them increasing meaning in their life which is much more gratifying and lasts longer than our animal instincts to indulge ourselves for momentary happiness. I don't know about forcing them to do it you'd have to convince me of the factors involved as i'm open to the idea but hesitant about the consequences that may follow.

mangaD Wrote:And why would you apply this only to non-whites?

Because we are in competition with minority groups who produce more children and will out breed us. Why should they control the nation and turn the united states into another 3rd world country?

mangaD Wrote:Why should the white race get special treatment in America?

Because the USA is a white majority country and not only that we were pioneers who founded a gov with 13 white colonies. That's what e pluribus unum stands for not a nation of immigrants. Even though i'm the literal incarnation of the 56% meme or even if i was a different race i'd still advocate for america to continue to be white.



mangaD Wrote:Even if you bring history claiming that white people got there first, the truth is that American Indians got there first. If you say that white people conquered it, then you justify any other race to conquer white people, and thus entice everyone to war and what Israel is doing in Palestine is totally legit.





Going back to your other justifications to go to war: I've already mentioned this on #18 of my post

"In the final analysis, a race or species is not judged superior or inferior by its accomplishments, but by its will and ability to survive." Nothing is more right than the preservation of ones own race. There exists no such thing as rights or privileges under the Laws of Nature. The deer being stalked by a hungry lion has no right to life. However, he may purchase life by obedience to nature ordained instincts for vigilance and flight. A lot these lines come from David Lane's 88 Precepts

mangaD Wrote:You also seem to ignore the fact that very often there are not jobs for people who lack education, because we live in a world where machines do most of the physical jobs and all jobs left require education, so there are people who live in welfare because they don't have a choice.

That is if you decide to take into the account that the people you mention act like children and therefore do not get a choice in the matter by stripping them of their agency you remove any responsibility of their actions in which case i can see why you would force them to work instead of giving them freedom for their own sake (just like how we set chores for children to see the value in bringing order and fulfillment from their toil)

As for jobs there are plenty of stores/industries that would hire low educated people to do simple tasks such as food/retail. They can also specialize in practical work as i have mentioned like plumbing, mechanical engineering or electric work which only requires 1 or 2 years of exp of training. Another thing I should mention is as we are accelerating exponentially with technology the promise of stability comes more and more unglued. When we increase the wage some demographics will not be picked due to their lack of ability even with all the training and knowledge they'll receive by comparison they won't be able to compete so something akin to apartheid. Look up The Gini coefficient and how that relates to crime.





Now the question is do we really want these people to go for these kind of jobs if so then we should do away with minimum wage. I used to think more libertarian lines and get rid of such a wage altogether but now i see that such tasks get taken over mostly by hard working hispanics in the food industry (like chipotle - knowing this first hand as this was a former job i held for 6 months) because they can handle the amount of labor thats pushed on them. Increasing minimum wage the companies are incentivized to up the quality of their service and cut back those they don't find as useful so they can save their company and make roughly the same profit they were making originally.

mangaD Wrote:Moreover, you also assume that if the parents are dumb the child is going to be dumb due to genetic factors, there is no scientific evidence for this and many times this is proven wrong. I have a white friend whose parents only have 4-5 years of school because they are old and in their time education wasn't that great and people studied only 4 years, so they did not focus on intelligence at all and his parents are not that smart as you can imagine. Despite this, my friend has a master's degree in CS.

So i can see where you can make the confusion but i am specifically looking at the patterns of those demographics. You think its because it was a lack of education and the contention i put forward is mostly one of biological significance. I did not say that parents who are dumb will have dumb children. My white dad who has kids with someone of european descent or from japan/korea/ or jewish will have more of a chance of having off spring that have a higher potential to do more compared to someone with the same opportunities from a different race. My dad could be dumb as a rock and same thing with the wife but if they invest and make sure the child has proper education and max out their potential then their iq will show for it.

I have a bolivian cousin who did very well in his grades (straight A student), while i myself did somewhat mediocre (C student). He told me his IQ was 90 their national average is 87 mine is 100 and that seems to be quite the average in ireland/england/scotland area. And my dad has a high iq. i don't remember what he said it was i know he didn't go to college and was a high school drop out but was self taught and clearly makes a lot of money in programming and knows how to abstract, do numbers in his head quite fast, and can remember an insane amount of information and cryptic passwords of just special characters. I highly doubt that someone with an iq of 100 could do something like that. and because my parents race mixed i got somewhere in between that average.

MangaD Wrote:The definition has not changed. Only the acceptability has changed.

The thing is the more acceptable the culture is with certain words the dictionary will change it due time. So far it is ambiguitous i would say the purpose of the words is probably more important than the word itself such as feminism wanting equality for everyone but really the proponents of the ideology want men to step down from their positions not really for equality but because they want to control the policies. Anyone who isn't a feminist they deem a misogynist even those who are proponents of egalitarianism advocate for gender equality but because the won't opt for the feminism label they are also cast in a similar light
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